China, Europe, and the Russo-Ukrainian War, with Marina Rudyak


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This week on Sinica, Kaiser is joined by Marina Rudyak, assistant professor of Chinese Studies at the University of Heidelberg. She offers her unique perspective on the underlying tensions and potential conflicts between Russia and China, the “dialogue of the deaf” that was the China-European Union summit on April 1st, Beijing’s failure to understand the European perspective on Ukraine, and China’s diplomatic and developmental policies in the Global South.

4:41 – Marina’s personal background and its relevance to our topic

6:53 – China and Russia are simpatico in Central Asia? Not so fast.

17:14 – Europe, China, and the national security lens

22:30 – China’s goals with respect to Europe

30:32 – What went wrong at the April 1st summit between Beijing and Brussels?

41:37 – European and American efforts to counter China’s presence in the Global South

A transcript of this interview is available at


Marina: Theory U: Leading from the Future as it Emerges, by Otto Scharmer

Kaiser: Robert Draper, “This Was Trump Pulling a Putin,” in the New York Times Magazine; Fiona Hill, There Is Nothing For You Here: Finding Opportunity in the Twenty-first Century; and Steven Johnson, “AI is Mastering Language. Should We Trust What it Says?” in the New York Times Magazine.