Terrorism, trade and trawlers — Q&A with Li Bijian, former China consul general to Karachi

Lǐ Bìjiàn 李碧建 was the Chinese Consul General in Karachi, Pakistan, from December 2019 to January 2023. His jurisdiction covered the provinces of Balochistan in the West, bordering Afghanistan and Iran, and Sindh, in the South, home to Pakistan’s largest port, Karachi, and sharing a border with India. Lǐ sat down for an exclusive interview with The China Project, to talk about the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), the Gwadar port project, the general security situation, and the country’s fishing community, among other topics.

This is an abridged transcript of his conversation with Akbar Notezai, lightly edited for clarity.

In the wake of January 2023 protests in Gwadar port, a focus of Chinese investment in Pakistan, how have Pakistanis reacted to the ongoing Chinese presence?

If the locals do not see much change and improvement, it fosters resentment. For instance, they ask “where are our jobs, water, electricity, education, and health?” These are valid and legitimate demands. In the past few years, these problems have persisted, and have now become a big issue. Then, there is this spillover from Afghanistan following the withdrawal of troops, as there have been some changes there.

We have always been in dialogue with the people. When we talked to them, the local leader of the rights movement Haq-Do-Tehreen, Maulana Hidayat-ur-Rehman, said that their protests have got nothing to do with the CPEC. However, when you go into the details, there are some connections.

First, there are the high aspirations of the local people. They want to know where the benefits of CPEC are, as CPEC has been here for quite some time now. Then, there are the security checkpoints, which hinder the free movement of the locals. But these are there because there have been so many bomb blasts targeting Chinese projects. The security personnel of Pakistan take action to protect Chinese nationals, hence the establishment of these security checkpoints.

On the Pakistan side, they want to create a peaceful environment to carry out their projects. That is understandable. But people think there are too many security checkpoints. The people’s perception is correct, but they should also understand that this is to provide a safe environment for the Chinese nationals to work.

What are the CPEC projects in Gwadar?

In the first phase, which is already complete, the Chinese government, at the request of Pakistan, provided a lot of money and development to help the Pakistani side improve the port. It is now functional. However, the port cannot operate at capacity without an industrial park, the implementation of Free Economic Zones (FEZ), proper transport infrastructure, and a new airport (the current airport is very small). So, we have come up with some projects, like the Eastbay Expressway connecting the port up to the highway. This cost $168 million and is part of the $62 billion CPEC investment in Gwadar. We also have the Gwadar International Airport being constructed, we have a Free Economic Zone, and a hospital. And we have to train the local people, so we have come up with plans to help the locals in Gwadar.

Despite the negative impact of COVID-19, we continued the work. But the weather in Gwadar is so hot, and the local labor supply was not adequate. Local skilled labor is hard to find. Despite this, the Chinese side worked hard. Through collaborating with locals, and due to this hard work, we now have some achievements to show for it. First, the port is functioning normally; second, the volume of cargo has increased; third, the Eastbay Expressway is complete: It was inaugurated by us alongside Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif. I also visited the Gwadar port, and the new commercial center in Gwadar. There is the new training institute which was the first project to be completed. We have built a 50-bed hospital in Gwadar, the Pak-China Friendship Hospital. It will be soon completed and handed over to the Pakistan side. The Chinese side will provide the necessary medical equipment. As for the airport, more than half of it is completed. It is far away from Gwadar city, so it takes time for supply equipment to reach there, and supply chains were disrupted by the pandemic. We anticipate handing it over to the Pakistani side on Pakistan’s Independence Day later this year, August 14.

Are locals in Gwadar part of the development process?

Yes. We have come to help realize the aspirations of the local people, and my view is that the Chinese side is doing everything to resolve their issues. For instance, we are setting up desalination plants, which will resolve the water problems in Gwadar; and we have also promised to provide 300 solar panels. When all these projects are completed, locals will benefit a lot. But my advice is that the locals should have more rational expectations, as construction takes time. Second, after completion, these projects will employ a larger number of locals. There are only 10 Chinese nationals currently working as managers in Gwadar. They have provided more than 100 jobs to the locals. The Chinese company is hiring locals, including on the management side. After Gwadar however, we will have to hire employees from Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad, because they are more skilled.

On the other hand, all the projects are buying materials from the local people and the local markets, such as sand equipment, and daily necessities such as water. In this way, they are creating business for the locals. And in fact, the whole region is benefitting.

As for the Free Economic Zone, you have to have this for the development of a port town along with the airport and national highways. We have also attracted Chinese businesses there. Right now there are more than 50 businesses set up. We are also trying to attract Chinese and other countries’ companies to come and invest. For instance, the Chinese fishing companies are showing interest in setting up processing facilities in other parts of the FEZ. Pakistani fertilizer companies recently made an agreement with Gwadar Development Authority (GDA) to invest in setting up fertilizer companies there. So we are gradually managing to attract business there.

So, we have the Gwadar Master Plan. In the future, Gwadar will be a regional hub for business, tourism, manufacturing, and transportation. The future prospects for Gwadar are very big. But we have to work hard for it. Without hard work, we cannot turn dreams into reality.

For instance, necessities such as water are still not adequate, which investors take into consideration.

What about the security concerns?

The number one issue is security. First, if companies want to invest, they seek assurances for their security. After security, they look next at the ability to do business smoothly. Without security, investors go away. It is a huge task to ensure security in Gwadar and in Balochistan, to give the investors full confidence to come and invest in Gwadar. Resolving the water issues and electricity issues are the next priority, and we are doing that — we have already done a financing assessment for that.

What do you think should be done to resolve the security issues?

Security is a very complicated issue. Both the federal and provincial governments in Pakistan are doing a wonderful job providing security to Chinese nationals, which is why Gwadar is safe now. We are satisfied with the security situation in Pakistan.

There are terrorist attacks, which is very complicated. There are so many factors behind this, including social, tribal, religious, and external factors..

In this regard, the Chinese government is very clear that we are opposed to all forms of terrorism. We want to collaborate with the government in Pakistan, to carry out counterterrorism work, as terrorism is a threat to society.

Lastly, we feel close to the people of Pakistan. We are brothers and sisters. We will always open our hearts to the Pakistani people.

Let’s talk about the fishing industry. Are Chinese trawlers fishing Balochistan and Sindh?

As you know, China has a large population, and as a result, we have huge demand for fish. We have found that Pakistan has the best quality seafood: shrimps, lobsters, and other fish. Naturally, as a result, Chinese fishing companies are doing business in international waters off Pakistan.

We have always ordered Chinese companies fishing in international waters to follow the rules and regulations, which they are doing. They avoid fishing in the territorial waters of neighboring countries and their exclusive economic zones.

As for the recent allegations of Chinese trawlers involved in fishing in Pakistan’s waters, I do not have any figures to verify them.

In recent years however, a few Chinese ships were fishing in international waters, and due to hurricanes and storms they drifted into Pakistan’s waters. But this was only after we made a request to the Pakistani authorities via our consulate, following which the ships were granted safe passage by the Pakistani coast guard. They came to the Gwadar coast for a few days, and then went away.

Per an agreement between the two countries’ governments, China exports big ships to the Pakistan side. The Chinese side then trains locals how to manage them. Then, the Chinese side imports the fish to China.

In Gwadar, I have met the local fishermen, and I have proposed to them to organize and buy larger ships from China and other countries with the support of their provincial and federal governments, as they have small boats and nets, with outdated engines. In this way, they might increase their catch.

Secondly, they can ask China and other countries to invest in the fishing areas. And then they can export huge quantities of fish to China, Japan, and to other countries. There should be facilities for freezing and storing seafood. And they should take advantage of the upgraded free trade agreement with China by exporting more fish to us.

How concerned are Pakistani fishermen about big Chinese trawlers?

Joint ventures mean that the Pakistan side will take home a share of over 50 per cent, and the Chinese side will have a smaller share. This is a win-win situation. If you use bigger ships, it will increase the size of the catch and also other benefits. That is in the best interest of Pakistan, and both sides will benefit.

Locals have been fishing with small boats for generations. And I understand they are afraid that big trawlers will deplete their fish stocks. But as I mentioned, you have to change if you want a better life. They have to adjust to the changing of the times.